In this interview, Speaker, House of Representatives, Yakubu Dogara, opens up on his relationship with Governor Mohammed Abubakar of Bauchi, his home state, and the issues of conflict between the duo, even as he declares that being the governor in 2019 is not on his agenda. JOSHUA EGBODO reports
What really is the matter between you and your state governor?
I have been extremely cautious of making public comments about these issues because we cannot tell our electorate that we are fighting, and that is why we cannot deliver the dividends of democracy to them. In the state, I was one of those leading campaigners of the change agenda, the APC change agenda in Bauchi, and I know I cannot easily extricate myself when it comes to non-performance from any member of our team because we presented ourselves as a team.
That is why I took everything calmly with extreme maturity, praying that somehow we will be able to find a solution until it became apparent that so much has been said and if there is no response from my quarters, the tendency is for people to take it as truth because they said lies often repeated takes the character of the truth over time. So, it has become absolutely necessary for me to speak to some of these issues, even if it means this is the only time we will do so and then we will wait for the right time so that we bring out the issues as they are.
Now, in addressing the issue directly as to what the problem is, as a matter of fact, I truly don’t know where the problem is. We started very well but I must say that from the beginning, I noticed certain things that really didn’t make me comfortable because we were projecting change agenda right from the very day we started having campaign funds.
When the President was going to visit Bauchi, we held meetings about the resources that were available to organise the rally and specifically, if I could recall very well, that meeting took place in Senator Suleiman Nazif’s house; we started it somewhere but we concluded it there, and what transpired at that meeting – granted my deep knowledge of the situation at hand – gave me a lot to worry because as at that time, we already had the primaries and knew who the candidates were, and to be candid, from that time, I started praying that our worst expectation as a people would not be realised.
So we moved on, we campaigned for change and God crowned our efforts and we were able to form government from the centre to the states and to virtually all the nooks and crannies of Bauchi, we were elected unanimously by the people who believed in the message we delivered.
So, what could therefore be the reason for this kind of crisis?
Initially, I was told that I was in a fight with the governor or the governor was fighting me, but I didn’t just believe it as I thought it was just a joke, until the matter came to a head when my three local government chairmen in the constituency, together with some elders of the party, decided to pay me a courtesy call in the National Assembly in the glare of the media in one of the halls, where I enjoined them to support the people, support the government and the governor so that we can realise the promises we made to them and everybody was there.
Clearly, that message was on record and was published and aired on all major media outfits. But as soon as they went back to Bauchi, they were suspended and queried about why they visited me. On this, I had cause to confront the governor when we met at the State House and I sought to know from him why he did that, he then told me that because he had taken an oath to enforce our laws and that these chairmen came to Abuja without his approval and the law says he must approve, he had to implement the law. Otherwise, he will account for it on the day of judgement, since he has sworn that he will execute the law faithfully.
So, I said okay, if he feels strongly about it, no problem. But apparently, these local government caretaker chairmen had taken permission from the Permanent Secretary in the State Ministry of local government but because it wasn’t the governor, he said he must be the one to grant such permission and not any other person. He suspended them and I said well, that must be it.
Few weeks thereafter, I decided that I was going to intervene in improving the wellbeing of the people in my constituency, so I dispatched a medical team to go the constituency and attend to the health needs and challenges of the people there. When they got there, they were specifically told that they cannot use any of the state facilities for that intervention. I just couldn’t understand why, but that was when I started really getting signals that all may not be well. I was taken aback.
On account of that, we had to relocate that particular intervention to Abubakar Tafawa Balewa University Teaching Hospital in Bauchi since that is a Federal facility, so no one could stop us. The events escalated to the point where we were told glaringly that I led a team to report the governor to the president, that was one of the allegations and that the members of the National Assembly had requested the governor to buy vehicles and houses for us in Abuja and because he said, even if he is swimming in money, he will not embark on that kind of bazaar. He actually said that even in the media, but unfortunately right now he has bought the vehicles and given cash to some members that he believed are loyal to him. So, maybe he has started swimming in money now that he has done that. That can be confirmed. Some of the members he gave the vehicles have come to me as their leaders and told me that this is what the governor has done for them, so they are not lying. He said that was why we were fighting him. These are specific allegations that I think we owe a duty to rebuff so that people can really know the truth.
Did you report him to the president?
Did we report him to the President? The answer is no, not at all. And this is a story that needs a lot of pages to be published but I don’t know if there has ever been a governor in Bauchi that was stoned in his first year in office, yet that was becoming the order of the day in Bauchi as anywhere the governor went to, he was being pelted with stones. These reports were everywhere and it came to the ears of the President and obviously, if the president wants to know what is going on in Bauchi, I am the one who is close to him here, so he literally summoned me and sought to know what the problem was.
Why would the people who brought in a government with so much zest and expectation start stoning the governor? The President wanted to know what was really going on in Bauchi and I told him (President) that Sir, they said I am fighting with the governor and any time I have an opportunity to discuss anything with you, you know that I don’t discuss personalities or mundane issues.
I always bring issues of national interest but because they say I am fighting with this man, so I am not in a suitable position to tell you. But I beg you, if you give me another appointment, I am going to bring elders from the state that you can speak to and they will be in a better position to tell you what is wrong in Bauchi. So the President instructed his protocol and said that Bauchi is home to him and he values the contribution of people of Bauchi to his election, and wants them to pick a day that he will have minimum of two hours that he will devote to this problem.
So, that shows you how important the President considers this issue.
But it wasn’t because we begged him for vehicles and he didn’t give us. It wasn’t because he refused to support me to be Speaker that was the issue, it wasn’t because anybody had reported him. It was because the people were getting so angry that they decided to take their own destiny into their hands and everybody knows, you can find out from them in Bauchi that that was the direction we were heading to, a very dangerous direction and the President needed to intervene.
So, after this appointment was given to us, the President suggested about two persons that were going to join the team. We formed that team, went to the President and briefed him, he listened to us, all the elders, each person in that delegation took time to talk to the president, and thereafter, the President now said go and enlarge or expand this forum, when you have expanded the forum, articulate all the issues that you perceive that if they are addressed, all will be well in Bauchi going forward; itemise them, call the governor, give him and then I give you two weeks to bring back the report to me and bring a copy to me as well.
That was the directive of Mr. President. So, we went and enlarged the delegation, they are all alive today and can testify to this and then we set up a committee of the APC elders in Bauchi to draft the document and come up with all issues as directed by the president which we could then use to meet with the governor.
When the work was completed, we studied that document and found out that we had a perfect document. If the governor could solve between 60 to 70 percent of the issues, then we will forever solve this problem of people taking laws into their own hands and trying to express their grievances by pelting the governor wherever he goes.
We then summoned a meeting with the governor and he gladly attended. We had a discussion and presented this document to him and he said he had already solved more than 80 percent of the issues we itemised, but that in the new found spirit of brotherhood, it was just because we had not been meeting or he would have informed us but that he can guarantee that he had solved most of the problems.
So, we now said fantastic, take this document, sit down with your team, review it, all the ones that you have implemented, mark them as implemented, if there is one or two or three issues that are not there, we will come back, meet and agree on them then we will now take to the president that these are the issues that are still outstanding and need to be resolved.
No sooner than he left the place, he said that he was no longer interested in the intervention, so we were left with no choice but to report back to the president on what happened. He had the document for two weeks with all the issues that we raised and that document is still available out there, we even gave it to the party.
It was after two weeks of handing over that document to him that we saw the president and told him this is how far we have gone and this is the document we have given to the governor. So, whether he will resolve it or not, we don’t know. But this is what happened and where we are because we owe it a duty to report back to the president. So where is the issue of reporting someone in this case? The issue of reporting does not even arise.
On the issue of begging for vehicles or even houses in Abuja, this is the third time I have won election. Truly speaking, I don’t know if it is in the culture of the state to buy houses for members from that state or senators as I have not received any anyway, so I can’t remember when we sat with the governor to discuss this. There was never such a meeting and we have challenged him if that meeting took place, where did it take place and when? But he was on BBC and all major media outfits that it was because we begged for vehicles and houses and that he said, even if he is swimming in money he won’t do it, that we are fighting him. There was never a discussion like that. I cannot recall any.
At the elders meeting with the president, what were the specific problems identified?
Major issues that came up in the course of that deliberation was first of all the interest of the state, how finances were being managed.
The issue of accountability was the number one thing, sticking to the APC core principle of fighting corruption and promoting transparency. The feeling was that nobody knew what was accruing to the state and what was being used for, and as a matter of fact, the trend has continued.
Even during this Paris Club debt refund, nobody in Bauchi knows what truly accrued to the state, nobody knows what was done with the money. Even the state Assembly that must appropriate the funds were not even informed, they just heard that he took money and spent it. That was one serious example. And then, we were owing workers, pension has not been paid so use the money you were getting to pay salaries, pay pension.
When people don’t have salaries, everything collapses, the economy of the state collapses, so that was first and foremost that was addressed in that document, pay salaries, pay gratuities and stop the endless verification, it has lasted for more than one year now and they are still doing verification in Bauchi state as we speak. Stop it, pay people, be transparent.
We talked about developmental projects, in line with what is going on in Jigawa, Adamawa and Yola for instance, you’ll see the transformation. Go to Plateau, you’ll see that construction work is ongoing. We considered that there has to be serious indications that something is being done by the APC government in the state.
If that is done, fine, and carrying stakeholders along because government is not a zero sum game. The state government should always engage with relevant stakeholders, always hold consultations, but he felt well he’s the governor, he’s not bound constitutionally or by law, he hasn’t seen where it is required of him that he must consult, that where he deems it necessary he will, where he doesn’t deem it necessary, he’ll proceed.
More so, there was this issue too relating to the projects, they are being awarded without any due process, they are never advertised in the papers. There are no projects mentioned that they are doing, and check whether they are advertised; there’s no competitive bidding, are we getting value for our people or not? Why is it that the laws are not being followed? In most cases, we don’t even know who the contractors are.
We just see people carrying equipment. In this century, people boil the tar by the road sides and they fetch it in buckets and just pour on the roads, that’s the kind of construction we are witnessing.
These were some of the issues that we addressed in those documents and urged him to be more transparent, to really embark on legacy projects and resolve the lingering issues of salaries and then the management of local government funds too. That was another thing because he promised in the course of the campaigns that he wouldn’t touch local government funds, but unfortunately as they say in modern terms, local government funds in Bauchi has gone into voicemail, we don’t know where it goes to. Sincerely speaking, you can investigate if you want.
Did the governor support your aspiration as Speaker?
Whether he supported me or not is not the issue. Yes, he told the whole world that he refused to support me and that is why I am angry with him. However, that is not the basis of our anger. God gives leadership to be candid, but everyone in Bauchi will tell you the circumstance under which the governor emerged during the primaries. God used human beings and I am happy to say that I am one of them.
In fact, that is why these issues have lingered for this long without me saying anything because my fear has always been that if he fails, I must account to the people of Bauchi because I gave my words and went with him, campaigned with him and told everyone that cared to listen that this is a credible alternative to what we had then.
But you are being accused of saying all this because you don’t frequent your home state.
For me, honestly, they are so childish to result to these primitive instincts to try and defend themselves. Very primitive instincts, in the sense that I was elected to work in Abuja, not in Bauchi. They were elected to work in Bauchi, so if I’m seen more often in Bauchi, then it means that I’m not doing my work. If they see me more at home and not in Abuja they should query me. The other way round, if we see them more in Abuja than Bauchi, we should query them. Unfortunately, that is the case now, they work more in Abuja, maybe they want me to go back and take over their responsibilities.
If you have developmental projects, they speak for you, you don’t have to promote them, you don’t have to speak about them, they will speak for themselves, thousands of people will see them. Bauchi is on the highway; ask anyone about Gombe, they ‘ll tell you what is going on, ask anyone about Yola, they are on the highway, you don’t have to be in Yola to know that there is a government, to know that roads are being constructed, to know that development has come to that place. So, if they wanted to belie what I’ve said, all they could have done is begin to do something like take to the pages of newspapers and advertise or itemise their jobs.
People say 2019 is at the centre of it all. Is that correct?
No, I don’t have that issue, and I cannot fight because I want to be somebody. The people in my constituency will tell you, even the man who literally dragged me into politics will tell you, I never wanted to be a politician. As a matter of fact, even as we speak, I always say that politics has restrained me and I’m not living to my full potentials.
Ahmadu Muazu will tell you, our former governor, when I ran for House of Representatives, he kept saying go and campaign, I told him look, you forced me to come and do this, I didn’t want to, I can only do it at my own time, if I win, so be it, if I don’t, it means God doesn’t want me to be there, I don’t care. I will never promote myself for a position.
In the course of my first campaign I went to the Emir of Dass palace, the late Emir, may God forgive him, and I made a prayer, I said, ‘God if I’m not going to do well for the people who are here promoting and campaigning for me, if there’s anyone that will do better, I beg you God give him this position.’ The Emir even told me to stop, that politicians don’t talk like that. I said I meant it from the bottom of my heart.
So, this being governor of Bauchi is not on my agenda at all, I can tell you this. Well, politics is there, you can never say, but it has never been on the agenda, but what I’m trying to do now is to perhaps lead a struggle for good governance in that state. Good governance has eluded Bauchi State. it doesn’t matter who amongst us will provide that leadership, I’ll support that person 100%, we just want good governance.
There’s no way Plateau, with all the crisis it went through, is ahead of us in terms of development, even states created after us are ahead of us. Gombe, which was just a local government headquarters in Bauchi State is ahead of us. Adamawa, Yola that we used to regard as backward, look at where Yola is today, go and see the first class roads they are building.
You said you are going home next week?
Certainly, I’m going home soon. I’m going to flag off some projects that I’ve attracted and then we will address them. Unfortunately, they said we are not doing anything, but to my surprise they went to commission a project that I attracted, and they drove on the road that I facilitated over 80 kilometers on account of my representation. There is no single pothole on that road, it’s about 82 kilometers long and it’s a Federal road that I facilitated as a result of my stay here, that’s the road from Bauchi to Tafawa Balewa. Everybody will tell you the state of that road before it was resurfaced and everything strengthened, apparently it has become one best roads in the state, everybody will drive on it and still say legislators are doing nothing.
