Mathew Mbu was a Senator representing Cross River Central between 1999 and 2003. In this interview with journalists, he called on the people of Cross River state to rise up against dictatorship, as the plan to impose candidates for elective positions would not augur well for Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) in the state. He spoke on other issues. SAMUEL OGIDAN was there
You are Senator Ndoma-Egba’s predecessor in Cross River Central. There’s divided opinion over his return to the Senate in 2015. What’s your opinion on this?
I think he more than deserves to come back to the Senate. He’s one Senator who has served his people, in fact, Cross River State very well. It’s all about representation. The question we must ask ourselves is this: Has Senator Victor Ndoma-Egba represented his people well? The answer is: yes. He has done so well for his people. He has not changed from the person he’s been, right from when he started. He’s there for everybody; anybody can approach him and as I said earlier, it’s all about representation of the people. He’s done very well in the Senate to the point that today, he’s the Senate Leader. That’s a great achievement for us.
He’s the number three person in the Senate. If we don’t want him back in the Senate and talk about bringing another Senator; that person would start from the beginning. What he has attained in the Senate today is equivalent in the military to the position of a General. It would be most unfair, for us in the Central Senatorial District, to replace a General with a Private. What a General can do for his people, can never be equated with what a Private can do and with the life of a Private in the military, he can never attain that position. So, why should we replace a Senate Leader, who’s an equivalent of a General with a Private? It just doesn’t make sense.
Can you be specific about what he’s done at the constituency level to deserve a return to the Senate; after all, it is alleged that he is not popular back home?
Look, let me tell you, and as human beings, no matter how popular you are, not everybody would tell you that you are popular or even agree with that. Jesus Christ that we all worship today, the Son of God, in his time, many people hated him to the point of even killing him! They never received or even comprehended that he was the Son of God! Please, name one popular politician in Nigeria. You can only be popular with some people but to be popular with all the people is impossible. But Senator Ndoma-Egba is a legislator, not an executive member and as a legislator, you can only attract projects to your constituency and has he done that? I tell you here that he has done that more than enough. He has attracted water projects, road projects, hospitals, schools, lots of scholarships granted across the state. He’s not a member of the executive arm of government. He can only attract projects and has he been doing that? The answer is yes. In fact, he has attracted more than enough and I believe he would attract even much more; more than if we were to replace him with a Private, a newcomer, a fresh man. You can never compare the two.
Why are the leaders of PDP in your state, particularly Governor Liyel Imoke, against the Senate Leader’s return?
Point out which leader is against his return. I’m sorry to say but my brother, Governor Imoke, is not a democrat. He’s a dictator. He’s coming out very strong…Imoke is interested in dictating to people; who should be where and who shouldn’t! We can’t go by what Imoke is saying and this is the time when all well-meaning Cross Riverans should rise up against dictatorship. We are practising democracy; where the will of the people should always prevail and not the wishes of one single individual. For whatever reason, Governor Imoke doesn’t want Senator Ndoma-Egba back; for the same reason he’s been toying with other aspirants who want to be governor in Cross River State! This is what is happening right now in our state. So, you don’t go by who you are supporting or who you are not supporting. He has an agenda and many of us know that. You don’t use that to say Senator Ndoma-Egba is not popular.
This scenario portrays PDP as being fractured in your state right now…
Well, PDP revolves around one man and that one man is Governor Imoke. It’s always been like that; even now when you go to the people and ask them; ‘who are you supporting?’ They tell you they are still waiting to hear from the governor! Is that democracy? You tell me! I’m sure you must have heard this and I’m also sure you are not hearing it from me for the first time; the only thing is that I tell people the truth. I’m a founding member of the PDP in Cross River State. I worked hard for that and nobody can deny that; that I worked hard to build the party. It’s on record. You ask Cross Riverans and they would tell you that; that I was one of the people who worked hard to put the party together in our state.
Have you brought this seeming division in the state to the notice of the party leaders in Abuja and don’t you think this may affect the party’s chances in 2015?
That is why we are all here, rallying behind the Senator. We want all of us to come back together to ensure that the right thing is done so that we, the PDP, continue to prevail, not only in the 2015 elections but in future elections.
In a situation where Governor Imoke succeeds in picking a representative for Cross River Central, what will the people do?
If that should happen, it would be most unfortunate. I can tell you this now. We pray that he doesn’t impose anybody because that is what he’s trying to do but if it happens, it would be most unfortunate.
What scenario do you envisage?
If it happens, it may be another party that would even produce the governor, which may not be the PDP. If he does that, I fear we may end up with a non-PDP governor in Cross River State.
What are the political leaders in your state doing not to jeopardise the chances of the Senate Leader returning in 2015?
Doesn’t it surprise you that Governor Imoke should be the one that should be going against the party directive?
But you have a PDP governor…
(Cuts in) That’s what we are saying about him being a dictator because if he were a democrat, the leadership of the party has given a clear directive that they desire stability in the Senate and so, our son, Senator Ndoma-Egba, the Senate Leader, should be allowed to continue, why should he go against that? Why should he be toying with another aspirant to take over the seat of the Senate Leader? It doesn’t make sense. We are here; I’m one of the leaders in Cross River State, and there are many others, too. We are supporting Senator Ndoma-Egba. We know the governor is not happy with us because the governor is promoting Hon. John Owan-Enoh, who is currently in the House of Representatives to take over from Senator Ndoma-Egba. Whenever you see his campaign train, they are all the governor’s men, people working for the Cross River State Government. They are the ones parading everywhere with him primarily. We all know that but we hope that at the end of the day, the governor should be able to do the right thing.
There’s an allegation that those aiming to stop the Senate Leader and by extension, the Senate leadership, actually have President Jonathan as their primary target with the hope that they would use new lawmakers to impeach the President in 2015. Do you share that view?
Well, I can’t say exactly that that is the game plan but it is possible because if truly, you are with the President on the same page on this matter and he has instructed you on that, why should you now start turning against what you’ve been told? You don’t need a soothsayer to begin to tell you that all is not well. We are talking of the President of the Federal Republic of Nigeria telling you something; that he’s very comfortable with working with these group of people at the National Assembly, instructing the governor that this is who I want; why should the governor turn against the President’s instruction?
Since the President has said he’s comfortable with the present leadership and he wants them back in 2015; yet someone in your state is saying ‘no,’do you see that person as confronting the President?
Well, to some extent. The only question you should also ask yourself is this; ‘why are they going against the instructions of the President? You see, there’s no smoke without fire. For them to go against the president’s instructions, it means there might be something there that we don’t know or don’t understand.
Do you have any idea of what could be the cause of this alleged rift between the governor and the Senate Leader?
It’s very difficult to know the human mind. Look, you can never know the human mind and then, sometimes, as human beings, we tend to be a bit petty. We always forget…we don’t look at the larger picture. We tend to personalise issues. If you ask me, I will tell you I don’t know what the problem is and I will also tell you that I don’t think there’s supposed to be any problem. I think only the governor himself knows; he’s in a better position to answer this question. I can’t answer for him because I really can’t see any problem. They’ve always been friends before politics. So, for whatever is happening now, he obviously can’t say the Senate Leader has not represented his people well. He definitely cannot say that because the Senate Leader has done well. He has represented us well, I can say that.
As one of the stakeholders, have elders of the state gone to see the governor to ask and also, resolve the alleged rift?
If you ask the governor, he will tell you ‘all is well.’ That’s all he says but when you watch his actions, the actions say something else. What he says and his actions are not be at tandem. That’s the problem.
Are you not worried about the huge turnover in the National Assembly?
Obviously, we are and this is what some of us are trying to prevent. In advanced democracies, like the USA, you can have a Congressman on seat for 30 years, even up to 50 years. Whenever you ask the electorates, ‘why do you keep that person there for this long’? The answer is always the same: ‘we have spent so much money to train him. He has garnered so much experience and it would be a shame to throw that away and bring a newcomer.’ It’s an institution; just like wine that grows with age. Wine gets better with age. The same with the Legislature. A legislator gets better with age in the parliament. You cannot compare somebody who’s been there for two years with someone who’s been there in one year. I can tell you that. It’s a different institution altogether. I keep telling people that, assuming it was possible to bring my governor now and Senator Ndoma-Egba now, bring them together to the Senate, the ranking rule would apply! The Senate Leader will be higher up while the governor would be far behind him! It’s an institution with its own personality and character. You can only grow when you are in there and so, it’s a shame for us to keep having the turn-over we keep having in this country. It’s not even good for the growth of the institution.
Why do we keep having this huge turnover every election year?
We are having it because we are selfish, we are self-centred and it’s most unfortunate, I have to be this blunt but the truth is that we are just like that. In this country, everybody would tell you that; ‘that man has been there for too long, is he the only person? Let another person go.’ Nobody is thinking about the benefit to the nation; that is, if you are looking at it from a broader perspective. If he’s not doing well, it’s a different ball game. But if he’s doing well, to bring another person would mean to start from the scratch. It’s not even good for the stability of the nation as a whole.
Are you saying the state has a lot to lose by stopping Senator Ndoma-Egba from coming back in 2015?
Of course! We have a lot to lose. As I said earlier, I compared the position of Senator Ndoma-Egba now to that of a General in the Army. Whoever is coming after him would start like a Private. In America, such person would be called a freshman. You cannot compare the position of a freshman with that of even a Major! They are two different people. The freshman would start from the scratch and he might never even get to attain the position that Senator Ndoma-Egba has attained. Why do you want to gamble? It’s a big gamble! It doesn’t even make sense. I’ll tell you one thing; anybody you take to the Senate today, from Cross River Central, the person might not even be in the position to hold a major committee. I’ve been there before; I tell you that. The ranking principle is there. It’s just like even within your family, you have seniority; do you understand that? In the sharing formula, things would first go to the senior members before they start looking in the direction of the younger ones. That is the same principle that’s obtainable in the Senate.
Has Cross River Central ever zoned the Senate seat?
It doesn’t work that way! What is obtainable in the Senate doesn’t work that way outside. No newcomer will be given the seat of Senate Leader. A fresh Senator cannot even smell that seat. To answer your question, no; there’s no zoning arrangement in Cross River Central. It’s just now that somebody is trying to introduce it and that person knows why he’s trying to introduce it but there’s never been zoning. I was once in the Senate and I was never a product of any zoning arrangement. Somebody is just trying to be mischievous now; that’s why they are trying to bring zoning into the equation.
