In this interview, Hon. Olakunle Taiwo Oluomo, Deputy Speaker, Ogun State House of Assembly, speaks to ABDULRAHMAN A. ABDULRAUF in Frankfurt on the master, servant relationship between the state executives and their legislatures, his gains from the KAS-facilitated workshop in Germany, reasons the Nigerian youths can’t shun politics like their German counterparts, and the planned regional integration among the South western states among others.
What is the relationship between your state legislature and the executive?
Cordial I will say because we are members of the same party, and I have a personal relationship with Mr. Governor before he became governor as a political associate. But now that our party controls the majority in the House, we are okay.
Your impression of the German’s federal and state legislatures vis-a-vis Nigeria’s
Well, this is not new. I have been to other parts of the world too, I have seen how democracy is run in Germany and other countries like France, America, UK, Canada and some other African countries. I realised that we still have a long way to go. That’s why I tell people who care to know that at our state levels, we are still not practicing democracy but civil rule. This is because it’s like the legislature which is the symbol of democracy is not yet fully empowered, not as independent as we have in the western world we copied democracy from. That’s the only difference and there is no synergy between the two to bring about a smooth relationship. It’s like one is still suspicious of the other.
Beyond suspicion, would you blame the executive or the legislature?
Let me say this on the part of the executive because of the long notion that they hold power, because for so many years the legislature had not been there. For many years of our nationhood, the legislature was not there. How old is democracy now? You will agree with me that the executive and the judiciary had always been around and they appeared to understand one another. Now, the legislature is coming in between the two of them. God forbid, if there is any coup in Nigeria today, the only arm that goes off is the legislature
and that’s the end of democracy. The executive had always been there, the judiciary had always been there. The executive and judiciary have a kind of smooth relationship and it is that same mentality that the present crop of democratically elected leaders bring to bear on their executive functions. The tendency that the power belongs to us, the tendency that we dictate the pace of things, is still within them. Though, this is gradually fading out. The executive doesn’t give room for the legislature to really operate the way it should.
And must we continue this way?
We must not continue this way. This shouldn’t continue else democracy will be threatened.
So, the way out?
The way out is to grant the legislature the necessary and true autonomy. Two, the legislators on their own must rise up to their responsibility. If it is possible at the national level, because theirs is genuine autonomy, it is still pretty difficult here at the state levels because we are still tied to the apron string of the executive. Every month, we carry our files to meet the governors to get approval for the payment of our running cost. Then, he who pays the piper dictates the tune.
Why is it so tight to break the yoke and wean yourselves from the executive?
It is the constitution. We can’t go beyond te constitution. You can’t break the yoke. The constitution says he (governor) pays you, you go to him for your salaries, you go to him for your running cost on monthly basis and he uses that to tame you. By that, we lost our liberty.
The last constitution review exercise was lost because the state legislature was said to be its own enemy. Do you subscribe to this?
I was not in the legislature then. I think that was the sixth assembly. I think they missed the opportunity. In the 7th assembly which by God’s grace I was part of, we voted favourably in favour of legislative autonomy at the state levels. It scaled through, I don’t know why Jonathan (former President Goodluck) failed to make a name for himself by signing that amendment into law. If Jonathan had signed that into law, it would have had great impact on the advancement of democracy in Nigeria today, because it would have given up the capacity to checkmate the governors. It’s not fighting them. People perceive it wrongly that may be we are quarrelling may be because of money. No! When your right is not giving it to you or somebody is giving priority attention to other things, forgetting that you were elected like him.
For instance in my state, only 28 of us are elected, that is 26 in the House and the governor as well as his deputy. In terms of prioritising things, governors can give attention to his commissioners appointed by him, even approved for him by the House. They are in the same caucus, they see themselves every day. So, the tendency is that he can be more lenient and generous to them than those of us in the House.
In Germany, it’s parliamentary, while our is presidential. Which will you vote for?
If I had my way I will prefer parliamentary system. Take for instance when we were at the Bundestag yesterday, the executives have their own seats in the same chamber. There is this entrenched relationship between the two. Anytime there is plenary, the executive will be there and the legislators will have the liberty to ask questions, and debate on issues right in their presence. When you know you are coming back to the chamber, you will work on what you are asked to do, otherwise you draw their anger and there will be breach of peace.
But in our own case, it is not like that. The governor and members of his executives, you don’t know when they are meeting, no access to their records, unless you probe or during oversight and it is what they want you to see that you see. Unless you are so vigilant and that is why I said the legislators should be up and doing. And don’t forget that the legislators are not given the kind of training and support they need to do their job effectively.
At the Berlin state parliament, it’s part-time. Are you in support of same for Nigeria?
For a fledgling democracy like ours, full time is not bad yet because we are still not there. But when you have an advanced democracy, it should be apart-time because you have necessary tools you needed. This means those coming will have other sources of livelihood. But remember that they are also allowed to do other jobs. But in Nigeria, the moment you are elected, you are barred from doing your jobs. The only job the constitution allows you is farming. But where are the resources? When we are advanced in our democracy, part-time won’t be a bad idea.
Draw a comparison in the relationship between government/opposition in Germany and Nigeria
Matter of factly, opposition shouldn’t be a pull him down phenomenon. It should be a matter of understanding and consensus. In fact, consensus should play itself out between the ruling party and the opposition for the people to get direct benefits of democracy. Otherwise, democracy will not be there because those things you are supposed to do on consensus will be delayed and the electorate will suffer for it. I don’t see opposition as an opportunity to fight. It’s just a question of checkmating one another and reaching a consensus which will eventually move the communities forwad and advance the cause of democracy. This is what I preach to my people at home-the PDP. I told them that when we were contesting, yes politics but after that it’s the people. When you even look at this opposition we are talking about, it’s because of pecuniary gains, particularly when they suspect the governor is doing something for his own people-lawmakers from his party. That’s why I like my state, it’s what I get the opposition gets in all we do, because Mr. Governor knows the danger in dividing the House.
The German system, from the little we have seen is working. What really is the problem with our system?
Let me trace it to our upbringing by our colonial lords. This is partly responsible. If, I stand to be corrected, a country like Germany or America had colonised Nigeria and trained us their own way, probably we would be behaving that way now. But we were colonised by cunning people –British. You can see Harrold Smith revealing a lot of secrets about how they ruled Nigeria. So, I think it’s our upbringing where we learnt governance is myopic, corrupt. That is what we inherited.
For how long shall this continue?
We will contue for as long as we are ready to continue. And when we are ready to withdraw, we will withdraw.
After close to 60 years?
Yes, our democracy is still young. You are talking of a young democracy that ours is and that of America that is over 200 years.
Must that take away our ethical values from us?
We don’t have ethical values in the first place. We have perceived ethical values which are not real, genuine, which is fake. The British brought divide and rule among us. Please read Harrold Smith on Nigeria for a clear understanding of what I am saying. There was a deliberate attempt to ensure Nigeria did not survive, to remain perpetually at the beck and calls of its masters. If we had been allowed to develop on our pace, I don’t think this would come up. All they did was to make sure the head that has the brain does not control the purse. Get me right, I repeat myself. The British, in granting Nigeria independence ensured the head that got the brain did not control the purse. That is the foundation of our problem. Each time I meet a Briton, I tell him your father put us into trouble in Nigeria.
The business side of the trip, as it affects the micro business outfits visited. What have you learnt from there and how best can you replicate such?
What we have learnt here in terms of private enterprise, particularly as it relates to small and medium scale industry is the best example for Nigeria. But you will agree with me that it requires a lot f government’s support to do this. As a state legislator, it’s pretty beyond me. I wish I were in the Senate or Reps. You can see that I brought some youths along with me here, that’s the way I do my things. My plan is if I have about five local governments, and if i can bring some youths to Germany to come and learn this bakery or marble cutting that we saw, and upon their return to Nigeria , I put down some money and get the Bank of Industry to support them and put up such small scale business. If I do that for my people, other s will follow same and that will lead to a lot of prosperity across the 774 local governments.
